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mog
Dec-28-2008, 19:40 GMT
Canada


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Wow !

I am looking forward to hearing about Bodo´s steps toward Gallo Records. Thank you Sherlock !

I think I should spend 15 minutes on re-reading the Graceland sleeve notes and refresh my knowledge about the tape and what has been taken from it. So, Gumboots would have been the sole tune taken literaly from it, although Paul would have asked to meet and play with musicians that appear on the tape ?!

As for the bad reputation concern, I am not as concerned as our friend Ian. These stories are minors, nothing in the size of a pedophile accusation for instance. We heard about these because we probably browse on the web for stories about Paul. But the rest of the world is not doing this...

By the way, do you guys consider that Paul is now as cold as he was after Hearts And Bones ?

mog
Dec-28-2008, 19:42 GMT
Canada


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"new fans-super-hyper Graceland package"

Really liked that joke !

Bodo
Dec-28-2008, 20:02 GMT
Austria


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I hope I´ll get an answer mog. I wrote 3 people from the gallo records contact page, but 2 are on vacation at the moment (out of office reply)

I also think the stories are minors, but it is interesting to see how many people ´jump on´ and agree instantly.

From what I understand from the Graceland sleve:
I Know What I Know and Gumboots are directly taken from this tape. (the music)
Also The Boy In The Bubble sounds as if it should have existed in some way on this tape (the bass playing lead and the accordion)
Diamonds has a beat similar to Gumboots.
Well.. I am really curious about this tape - but I guess we wont never hear it.


I do not think Paul is cold now. The music business has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Paul is not writing for a recording company or to produce hits. He sells good, because he has a big, broad, and Old audience (old = older than 30 years by average), which is still buying CD´s. If the album brings a few hundred thousand dollars, than this might be enough today for a company like Warner.

I think no one is expecting a grammy album from him today, so everything is good he releases. I like it when he appears on songs like ´Fast car´, that gives me a feeling as he would be still relevant. But who is from the old garde? Ok, Dylan is a legend - he can do everything and the media would say: wow"

Ian
Dec-28-2008, 20:26 GMT
Unknown


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Mog,you are probably right about my concerns. I hope so anyway;-) About Paul´s post ´Hearts And Bones´ popularity slump-I always saw it as a bit of a reproach by S&G fans who wanted that album so badly to be a comeback album,that they just ignored H&B altogether,leaving only true Paul Simon fans to buy it. If you look at the years preceding-the huge reunion in Central Park,the subsequent 2 years of stadium gigs and selling tickets by the truckload,and the anticipation for the release of this album-all of it dashed when Paul turned it into ´Hearts and Bones´ instead. I´m still glad he did. Made no difference to me-I loved the album and still do. The similarities to now are pretty amazing actually. The S&G tours a few years back and then a solo album,which like H&B´s,has Paul using technology to embellish and extend his music´s reach. If it weren´t for the ´Lyrics´ book,the BAM shows,and the Gershwin award,etc,I´d say Paul´s public profile is about the same as his pre-Graceland period.

Scaaty
Dec-28-2008, 20:32 GMT
Ireland


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I ´ve had a suspicsion that there is something in the media that is anti Paul Simon. Although the same vintage and relevance as dylan, Cohen and Waits he does not get the same mass media coverage they do whenever there is an new album or concert. While all his concerts are immediate sell outs there is no mention, on the night of his concerts there is no coverage. |There has been no mention of the lyrics book on any of the review shows, yet it is for sale in one of the biggest book shops here. One late night radio show I listen to rarely plays his music yet the presenter/ producer admits to being a fan. A lot of people I know who are into similar music have an impression that he is a nasty person and very much into money.
Is this all just a case of a poor publicity team ( which I doubt as Paul Simon has always had great business acumen) or is there a conspiracy of silence left over from the Graceland days?

mog
Dec-28-2008, 20:38 GMT
Canada


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Interesting analysis Ian ! Thank you.

Thanks to Bodo as well. I just read the notes by Paul for Graceland. I also found in Itunes the two tracks from the Atlantic Records 50´s school he was referring to...fascinating.

I have not found too much from musicians referred to in the Graceland album. Stimela is there with Ray Phiri, two songs from the Boyoyo Boys...but that´s all.

So I guess that Gumboots tape would be interesting to hear, as it triggered the whole project.

mog
Dec-28-2008, 20:53 GMT
Canada


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If Paul would release something really compelling, I do not doubt that he would receive great media coverage.

Think, for instance, about an acoustic record with some catchy tunes...I can foresee the labels: "the return of the great songwriter", "Simon retuns to what he knows best", etc. LOL !!!

Nikki
Dec-28-2008, 22:26 GMT
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Wow I´ve been on holidays and there´s so much to catch up on in this one thread! Sorry my responses will be a bit scattered but just replying as I read along.
Not sure what to think about the whole Los Lobos thing, I´m not very well informed on the subject. On the one hand I don´t think Paul would ever knowingly steal from other musicians. On the other I don´t see why these musicians would make up such extravagant lies if they were totally unfounded. Maybe it´s a matter of genuine misunderstanding, different perceptions of how much credit is due to which party?

But what is this about Paul giving retrospective songwriting credits? Is there any truth in that?

The Songs of America film - Is this the really long interview with both Paul and Artie? Any ideas where I´d be able to find a copy?

Paul´s current career - yes it can be called a cold period in terms of sales of recent albums but I don´t think Paul is or should be concerned about that. He´s said on numerous occasions he´s not concerned with writing hits anymore, and if you look at critical reception it´s generally still very positive. Something Edie said in an interview comes to mind - she was answering a question about whether she and Paul discuss their songwriting etc and she said yes but she´s still trying to navigate territory which he has long moved beyond, that he´s in a space of his own and I think that can aptly be applied to his position in the larger music scene today.

And good luck searching for the tape! It would be amazing if you guys found it. Well you never know :)

mog
Dec-28-2008, 23:12 GMT
Canada


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Has somebody already posted this in the past ?

http://heartonastick.blog-city.com/vampireweekend0
3.htm

I found this today in a Google search.

Here is an excerpt, relevant to our discussion :

"Could he have done more? Certainly. Who here´s got a copy of Gumboots: Accordion Jive Hits, Volume II? Wouldn´t it have been a good idea to expose the rest of the world to the specific raw materials that inspired him? Years later, when Graceland was released as a "deluxe" "enhanced" CD, its extras included a few Simon demos, but not the original versions of the three songs he remade. Wouldn´t that have been a good idea? Or would that just revived the accusations of cultural plundering, would it have siphoned a few pennies off the royalties?"

Rosemary in Time
Dec-29-2008, 10:35 GMT
United Kingdom


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Would Paul knowingly steal from another musician? Well, it´s fairly well known that he stole "his" version of Scarborough Fair from Martin Carthy and that Carthy bore a serious grudge about it. Personally I think it´s things like this that make Paul a bit more interesting. His manners turn out to be a little rougher than his voice.

Ian
Dec-29-2008, 10:54 GMT
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Hi Nikki,I´m not sure about the the songwriting credit thing. What I do know is that some believe that originally,Graceland was released without any co-writers credits. I don´t like to speak in absolutes,but that is a totally false belief. Graceland always had the co-writers credits in place from the very first pressing. I bought my copy 2 days before the actual release date,and I hounded the music stores in Brisbane for months,literally,for the release date at the time,and I don´t believe an earlier version of Graceland flew under my radar without my knowing. About retroactive credit for Los Lobos-that was suggested by Chilisize Magoo on this forum a few days previous,but I doubt the veracity of the claim. If it was true,I´m sure Paul would have stipulated that in return for the credits they desired,Los Lobos should remove the rant about the issue,from the bands website. Actually,I´ve never once visited their site,but I have read that it´s still on there. Sorry,that´s about all I can tell you.

Bodo
Dec-29-2008, 12:06 GMT
Austria


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Wow - I never have read a longer explanation of the Graceland background than this one mog.

And he seems to have a little bit more info than wen about African music.

I know we have one fan from South Africa in the fan-database. I´ll contact him and ask if this tape can be found somewhere.

Ans
Dec-29-2008, 13:30 GMT
Netherlands


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These articles are only complaining about the so called abuseâ?¦ But there is also another side of Graceland. The Possibilities of what you can do with music, how it unites people, how it brings cultures together. How powerful Music is. I think Graceland also did good for the black community, getting more accepted around the world. Paul made the African music more accessible, more understanding for people in other countries.

Important is what the music does for you personally, you are the one who decides what music you like, not some critics.

Scaaty
Dec-29-2008, 14:22 GMT
Ireland


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a link from that article leads to a review of Graceland at the time, which gives both positive as well as negative views points out that before Graceland there was no "world music" this was a direct result of the popularity of LBM and African music for its own sake not a sanitised Western version of it. For that alone we should all be grateful for Graceland.

On the Credits issue I got the Graceland Album in August 1986 - I don´t think It was out very long - i still have it and all credits are on it including quite a long one to Los Lobos.

Happy New Year everyone!

mog
Dec-30-2008, 06:46 GMT
Canada


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I found some infos in the series "PS Songbook" by the BBC, when they talk about Graceland, from what Simon and Hilton Rosenthal say:

The Gumboots tape was a tape from The Boyoyo Boys, made in 1968, recorded in two tracks.

Gallo would have made a deal with Simon about songwriting royalties. Around 1984, the Boyoyo Boys were supposedly already dismantled(although they seem to have released music after that...)

In the background in the BBC doc, I think we can hear the original Gumboots tune from the tape.

Anyway, let´s see what Gallo responds. Another solution would be to contact Hilton Rosenthal directly ! LOL !!!

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