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Chilisize Magoo
Dec-25-2008, 03:16 GMT
Australia


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I had heard the story, some time ago, about Los Lobos´ collaboration with Mr Simon on the "Graceland" album. I was shocked, frankly to hear of the alleged theft of Los Lobos´ music.

While I am more than willing to accept that there are at least two sides to this story, I think that the piece at this forum regarding their ill-fated collaboration needs to be corrected.

Firstly -- Los Lobos did not "sue" Paul Simon. They simply report that he told them something along the lines of "sue me" when they were able to confront him over the lack of songwriting credit.

Second -- Los Lobos were hardly "unknown" at the time "Graceland" was being recorded. They in fact were a well known international touring act with several hit records.

BTW -- it appears that Los Lobos was eventually awarded the song credit they sought and deserve.

Ian
Dec-25-2008, 03:41 GMT
Norway


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Yeah,we have discussed this already. I have stated my opinion already. ´Mr Simon´ has no need to steal,or admit to stealing a 4 chord song from Los Lobos. As they were already an established band,why hadn´t they done anything with this ´song´,sans melody and lyrics of course,already? I know why-all songwriters have bits and pieces lying around to work on at some future time. If their story is to be believed,Los Lobos shouldn´t have put their chord progression ´on the table´ to be used. After all,this is a band that doesn´t,and has never ´Jammed´ according to Berlin. Unlikely! Sounds like they need to keep every musical idea they have to themselves.

Chilisize Magoo
Dec-25-2008, 08:38 GMT
Australia


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Again, I wanted to post to corrections to the piece that appears on this forum - first, the claim that Los Lobos "sued" Paul Simon. They did not. Second, that they were an "unknown" band at the time the record was made. They were not.

And again, I am not even saying that Los Lobos´ side of the story is the only one, but your reply certainly begs the question. If Los Lobos played a part in composing the song -- and I believe they did, then they should get credit for *playing a part in composing the song.*

You seem to want to minimize their role by numbering the chords involved, but that is just silly. Essentially, "Paul" contributed a vocal and lyrics while
Los Lobos created the bulk of the music accompanying those. If there is any disputing that telling of the events, I´d like to hear it, along with a substantial explanation as to why they shouldn´t share credit for creating the song (which I believe has now happened in any case).

Ans
Dec-25-2008, 09:27 GMT
Netherlands


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Why did you start a new thread about this? It would have been better if you posted your comments at the piece that already existed in this forum.

For me it´s simple, they were credited at the back of the album. I wrote the credited piece in the thread.

I agree with Webster on the existed piece, it`s not worth the hassle, the song is not one of the best on Graceland.
It would have been smarter for Los Lobos to appreciate the collaboration. Why is it still on their website, I should say, get over it and move onâ?¦

Ian
Dec-25-2008, 10:59 GMT
Norway


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Yes Ans,I agree. The only reason I even replied to the opening post earlier on,is because I could tell there was an agenda at play. If you need Proof of any bias,check out the ´silly´ comments on the originators fan database entry. Actually,it´s bewildering that anyone would go to the trouble of joining a fan site such as this,and leave such stupid answers. I don´t believe one question was answered without some confusing attempt at a Paul Simon putdown. Anyway,that´s my final statement on the subject,but I doubt it will be the final statement altogether. Merry Christmas!

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 11:50 GMT
Austria


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Ups

Sorry, I was not aware that Chilisize Magoo was discussing here in the forum. I deleted his/here fan-database entry before, because I had have to believe it was a fake/joke entry (it was somehow created like a anti Paul Simon entry)
Sorry, I did not want to censor you Magoo. !!

I believe like you, that the story has 2 sides. Well, I remember the I posted this story that I heard: On the last 2 tracks for his Graceland album Paul just wanted to finish the album, put another 2 songs on it. He came into the studio where the bands have already been waiting, recorded a few takes, and thats it. But somehow the story does not fit to the perfectionism of Paul. But we know that there are songs (like Gumboots) which already existed before as a recording of this band.

I have to re-watch the making of Graceland to remember if Paul says anything about ´That Was Your Mother´ and ´All Around The World´


Sorry Magoo again. I´ll look if I can make a guest account for posters which do not want to register to the fan-database.

Bodo

Chilisize Magoo
Dec-25-2008, 12:30 GMT
Australia


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I started the thread because I saw a piece that, for all I could tell, was not set up to allow comments.

Again, two corrections to that piece, referring to Simon´s collaborations: Los Lobos did not sue Paul Simon as is claimed, and Los Lobos was not an "unknown" band at the time of Graceland being recorded.

Did or did not Los Lobos create the music? Yes indeed they did -- and they should get the credit due to them for doing it.

And the notion that Paul Simon was doing them some kind of favor by using them as he did is just laughable. Not only were they not an "unknown" band, as is erreously stated at this forum, they were a *more* popular act than Simon at the time. They created music that helped him become relevant to pop music again.

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 15:38 GMT
Austria


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Well, you say a lot of things that seem to be fact for you. So we can not discuss that points I guess.

But in the end of your last message you lean a little bit too wide out of the window when you say Los Lobos was a more popular act than Paul Simon. Why did he hire and pay them as session musicians than, and they did not say: "no, we want to do a duet?"


I only know 1 really famous song - La Bamba - and in fact, this was a cover version the band did. And released after Graceland.

Did or didn´t they crate the music? Well, if they did, why isn´t it written on the cover? Why didn´t they sue him - if it is a fact? The problem might be that they never ever wrote that piece of music down before, or played it before. So - didn´t they just create it for Paul in the studio? (As they have been paid for?)


BTW: You are seriously jocking when you say: "They created music that helped him become relevant to pop music again":-- The song All Around The World is far away from a hit, it has never even been played live. Even if you replace it by just any other song you find - Graceland would have become a worldwide hit album.

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 15:40 GMT
Austria


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BTW Magoo - you do not have to hide your person here. We are not dangerous at all :-)

But I do not want a japanese fan-database entry if you are not from Japan...

Ans
Dec-25-2008, 16:25 GMT
Netherlands


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I just read the entry of Magoo on the fan data base, I don´t think you should allow him/her on the fan data base Bodo, he/she isn´t a Paul Simon fan.

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 17:12 GMT
Austria


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Well, he is definately a Los Lobos fan ;)

I though he/she could bring more facts into this story. But beside stating that Los Lobos wrote the song, and are very famous even before Paul was, there have been no really new facts...

If we see it realistic: Paul and also Los Lobos have closen that chapter a long time ago.

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 17:16 GMT
Austria


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BTW: Magoo - I really doubt that Paul Simon said something like ´sue me´ to Los Lobos.
In fact: It was a advocat from Los Lobos which confrontated Simon with the fact that they want songwriting credits - before they EVER talked to him in person. Thats what made him very sad about the whole thing. He said that in some interviews - and he never ever did lie.

Bodo
Dec-25-2008, 17:35 GMT
Austria


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Finally I found the story/interview Magoo is refering too (I guess...well the words he wrote are inside that text)

http://blogs.laweekly.com/play/teenage-kicks/los-l
obos-on-paul-simon-do-you-1/



All I can say is: The tone and language this guy is talking says a lot. I understand that it is not possible to work with these musicians. And that Paul does not want to give more comments - it is under his class...

This guy sounds like as if the whole world must hate Paul Simon. But in fact - it is just him. All other artists around Graceland are really the best friends of Paul untill today.

And what kind of band is Los Lobos? We never Jam? Come on, thats the only thing a band is doin´ to have fun. Los Lobos just sit down, and write world hits on their paper eh?
They should be happy that someone wrote La Bamba before them, so they earned enough money...

DannyJ  
Dec-25-2008, 18:23 GMT
United Kingdom


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Artist: Billy Bragg, Song: A New England. "I was 21 years when I wrote this song, I am 22 now but I won´t be for long". Sound familiar? It´s called influence and all musicians thrive on it!

It is a very real (and sometimes disheartening) fact that we can never please everyone, no matter how hard we try.

Magoo is only here to provoke PS fans, which is sad. Nothing we say as PS fans will make them happy.

I´m off to listen to Hearts & Bones... Happy holidays everyone (including Magoo).

Chilisize Magoo
Dec-25-2008, 21:27 GMT
Australia


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To all here: I too am a fan of Paul Simon, have been since I was a little boy.

I came to correct an entry under "collaborations with Paul Simon" or something similar.

Again those corrections: it is not true, as the entry states, that Los Lobos "sued" Paul Simon.

And it is not true, as the entry states, that Los Lobos was "an unknown band."

I did not say that Los Lobos was famous before Paul Simon was famous. I said that Los Lobos, at the time of the recording "Graceland," was riding a bit higher commercially than Paul Simon.

Yes, I live in Japan.

Now -- if you want to revisit the issue of whose side of the story to believe, I´ll say again -- if you create the music, you should get credit for it. Even if Paul Simon fans believe the song is inferior, even if Paul Simon fans believe that there were too few chords in the song, even if Paul Simon fans believe that Paul Simon did you a huge favor by putting his name on your song and keeping your name off of your song, if you create the music, you should be credited with creating the music.

Bye, and indeed, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all y´all.

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