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Ian
Nov-19-2008, 08:53 GMT
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I just came across this article that straight out implies that the audience figures quoted for these Central Park concerts have been highly overexaggerated! They seem to be saying that the figures would be closer to 50 to 100,000 people in attendance at these shows. I doubt that very much! I watched CP´91 last night and to my eye,Paul and band were playing to a huge ´sea of humanity´ that is obviously more than 100,000 strong. Here´s the link. I hope it works- http://sweetness-light.com/archive/million-man-mat
h-cost-nyc-550000#

HÃ¥kan
Nov-19-2008, 12:08 GMT
USA - United Staates America


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I was there in 1991, stood relatively close to the stage, and there was quite a lot of space between people. I also think the figures have been exagerated a bit.

Ian
Nov-19-2008, 13:17 GMT
Norway


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Hi Hakan,it says that whilst the Bon Jovi and Dave Matthews shows were free concerts,there were bar coded tickets issued as a promotion. Was there any such ticket at Paul´s 91 show?

Klausi
Nov-19-2008, 15:40 GMT
Germany


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This has been discussed before, the question of estimating large standing crowds. Very difficult. I saw crowds standing close together in stadiums or large concert halls. Pink Floyd in Cologne around 1990, 60.000 people including the seats. At least half were in the soccer field, probably more.

Or 40.000 in Hahare Zimbabwe 1987 at the Graceland show.

So less than 100.000 in CP 1981 or 91 is certainly not true.

The Garth Brooks figures really were overestimated - he sold more albums in the US than S&G, but in NY the interest was lower than "allowed".

But the park officials still name Paul Simon and the three tenors as most crowded events.

But anyhow, Central Park is in the centre of NYC, why should people don`t go there and just see what is happening for a short while?

The Rolling Stones played at the sea strand in Rio de Janeiro before a crowd of more than a million they say. How many people would have been there anyway?

Manhattan is not as big as Rio, but still big enough to show up.

What about 600.000 in Rome S&G? This I doubt more, as the other figures there.

Bodo
Nov-19-2008, 21:06 GMT
Austria


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yes! I really doubt the 600.000 in Rome.
I even doubt the 60.000 in Rome from 2002 (Paul solo show). I was there, it was at a not so big park, and the crowd was away very fast after the show - that is impossible with 60.000 people.
I have seen a crowd of 45.000 people (paying for there tickets), and that was really a BIG crowd. More than the so said 60.000 by far.

I guess italian journalists just don´t know a lot about serious numbers. ;) You know, they have lost their Lira, with these many zeros...000000 ... now they need other big numbers to fill the papers :-D

Bodo
Nov-19-2008, 21:19 GMT
Austria


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Hm

I have found this picture on the web from the Bon Jovi show.


If this picture shows everything - so 48.000 people, then Paul did have much more. (although you can not really compare the pictures

Cover of CP91 CD



It is the first time that I hear the number of 600.000 at this show. I also do not believe them (as most of these big numbers). I would say 150.000 could come closer)

Ian
Nov-19-2008, 21:36 GMT
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Hi Bodo,You know,whether the audience was 50,100 or 150 thousand,it´s still a huge discrepancy,when you consider the 750,000 number. Mind you,the largest audience I´ve been part of was only 25,000 people,and that seemed colossal. On a less interesting and technical note,compare the PA system size at Paul´s 91 show,and then look at Bon Jovi´s. Is it just that ´sound reinforcement´ technology provides bigger bang with smaller boxes these days?

Bodo
Nov-19-2008, 21:42 GMT
Austria


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BTW: The great lawn - has a length of ´only´ 400 meters (including the 2nd part)
and is 200 meters broad. (google earth)

It´s an ellipse, so the space is 62.831 qm², make it 70.000 for people standing in between the trees...

Now you can estimate how much place 1 person takes. Hakan said there was enough place.
But 1 qm² is a lot.
I would not say that more than 3 people are standing on 1qm² - that would make 210.000 persons maximum!!
I guess there only have been 1,5 people on 1qm²...so that makes around 100.000 people at Pauls concert.


For 600.000 people you need 8 to 9 people on 1qm², thats way too much.

(1 qm² ~ 3*3 feet?)

Bodo
Nov-20-2008, 00:11 GMT
Austria


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Hi Ian.

Yes, I think the sound systems are ´better´ these days. (better in the way of louder at a smaller size - and the technique where to place them.)
Having these 5.1 surround sound systems I see that you can have really small boxes, providing the same loudness than 2 big boxes from the 1980´s...

750.000, that are around 10% of NY´s inhabitants. (1991)

I never knew that the great lawn was so ´small´. (ok, I never really thought about it). On the other hand, at a distance of 400 meters (1200 feet) you will not see or hear much of that concert too.


So what about those 3 million people at the Rolling Stones show in Rio? Did they really ´see´ or hear the Stones? If you put 3 people on 1 qm² you need a space of 1000*1000 meters. That means at 1 end the people are 1km away from the concert stage. (and normaly you can not use a square...so 2000*500 meters would be more serious)
2 km (6000 feet) away from the stage. Can you see Mick Jaggers Old skin?

Ian
Nov-20-2008, 03:35 GMT
Unknown


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Yeah,I see what you mean Bodo. Gives a new interpretation to the phrase ´I was at that concert´. You might say that all of Manhattan attends these shows on the Great Lawn,and that it´s all a case of proximity. Gee I live in Australia and I was at the CP´91 too! I was just a little further from the stage than most... :)

HÃ¥kan
Dec-07-2008, 20:00 GMT
Sweden


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Ian wrote (long time ago):
>Hi Hakan,it says that whilst the
>Bon Jovi and Dave Matthews shows
>were free concerts,there were
>bar coded tickets issued as a
>promotion. Was there any such
>ticket at Paul´s 91 show?

No it was totally free, no tickets involved. You could come and go as you please.

And remember that there was certainly lots of people standing in the woods, all around. Not just on the Great Lawn. But I doubt the figure 750.000 very much. Maybe half would me closer to the truth.

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