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Han
Jan-31-2014, 09:43 GMT
Netherlands

Hi all,

Read this interesting interview with ´Miami´ Steve Van Zandt, prominent member of the E Street Band. http://www.backstreets.com/SVZonSunCity.html

Steve is talking about the cultural boycot of South Africa and also extensively about Paul. He mentions ´by the way´ that he himself got Paul Simon off an assasination list. Paul was on top of it.

Steve and Paul dont´t seem to be best friends.

Bodo
Jan-31-2014, 21:23 GMT
Austria

Thanks, very interesting interview.

So Paul said Mandela is a communist... hm.

I must admit, I have not much insight on all of that. But it is interesting that Steve was still edited on the last 25years DVD.

Anyway, I do not want to start any bad argument about Paul now ;-)


I just saw an documentation about Mandela and it was very complex... I understood that his former wife gave orders to kill some boy, anyway, she never went into prison for that. So not everything around Mandela is just glorious. I had mixed feelings watching it.

Paul might have gotten very wrong information, but it is a usual habit for us-americans to say in a reflex "this is a communist" (sorry my friends...it is just a reflex, nothing to worry about ;-)...). That might come from the cold war aera, the world was divided into communist and non-communist and if you had just a simple new idea then someone said - "communist" :-)

Even Arnold Schwarzenegger once said that Austria is/was a communist country in his youth (of course the 1950-1960s, and no, nothing communistic here) - it seems to be a usual phrase you learn very fast ;-)

Scaaty
Feb-01-2014, 13:43 GMT
Ireland

Not a pleasent view of Paul Simon at all - has he been a friend of Kissinger?
Winnie Mandela suffered a lot while Nelson was in prison and became very involved with the armed struggle against apartheid - she did not embrace the peaceful strategy that Nelson adopted when he was released. She also had an army of young men (a football club?) who she encouraged to punish informers. Because of this difference in opinion Nelson & Winnie decided to divorce.

Ans
Feb-01-2014, 14:01 GMT
Netherlands

Mandela's story is indeed complex. I don't have much insight either but I think Miriam Makeba and Hugh Masekela would not have worked with Paul if they thought Paul was as bad as this interview says. And probably Paul changed his mind when he knew more about Mandela. Paul made mistakes but I think this interview is biased, there were much more issues. The black musicians wanted to bring their music out to name one.

Pelle
Feb-01-2014, 18:51 GMT
Sweden

So many black people Paul has work it before and after Graceland I don´t belive he was as bad as the story will tell. There are people 25 years after Graceland who still play in his band, they have definitive take his hand of him if he has not be a good human person in this issues

Bodo
Feb-03-2014, 12:23 GMT
Austria

You are right Pelle, there is nothing to worry about, Paul has thousands of friends, so it is very usual to have some people who do not like you.

I must admit, I also found the sentence "Well, I paid everybody double-scale." very inapprobiate. :-(
I am sure for Bakithi, Tony and at least the other members of the Graceland touring band this was okay as they had a long income after. I love that album so much, and I know Paul has written all the lyrics and that he had made really great songs out of it and that many many musicians had really worldwide success after working with Paul.

I hate the stories which all come up...every half a year a new one. Los Lobos, Ray Phiri(youtube video), Heidi Berg, General MD Shirinda (do not play my song, 2012), Steve Van Zandt...

I have just read that interview (german) and there Pauls answer is that he was very naive and did not know anything political, he even admited that he just understand AFTER wathcing that movie, how dangerous the situation was, and that his musicians did know, but he didn't.
I think that is an excuse, he does not have to say excuse me Mr. Steve van Zandt that I asked you a wrong question 25 years ago.

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/musik/interview-mit-p
aul-simon-ueber-protest-gegen-graceland-album-a-83
4898.html

Brenda
Feb-03-2014, 21:59 GMT
Australia

Bodo regarding the double scale payment to the musicians on Paul recorded on his visit to SA he said last year in an interview in Australia(which I recorded and uploaded to the Excessive Fans section ) that he paid them double US session rate. 500 dollars per day. Their rate in SA was $10 per day. He speaks at length and answers the criticism levelled at him over Graceland. interesting the Zulu Tribe (LBM) were not supporters of the ANC. i also found this interview with Hugh Masakela in Australia 1987 very informative.
http://www.radioskidrow.org/index.php/projects/afr
ika-connexions-story/15-projects/afrikan-connexion
s-project/program/25-the-hugh-masakela-interview-1
987

Brenda
Feb-03-2014, 22:04 GMT
Australia

Forgot to say really enjoyed reading the German interview you posted.

Bodo
Feb-04-2014, 13:34 GMT
Austria

This is a simple google translation of that interview - read carefully...

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Mr. Simon , 25 years before you are about to concerns with their album " Graceland " enormous anger . It was said that you had disregarded all political decency than you grossed your songs in the controversial apartheid regime of South Africa. Did you underestimate the potential for political conflict ?

Simon : Yeah, totally ! I was completely unprepared for the reactions. I played the disk end of 1985 in South Africa , together with black African musicians such as Ladysmith Black Mambazo or Youssou N'Dour . When " Graceland " was released in late 1986 , there was no sound . Only when the album was a hit, the controversy began.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Even the ANC , the African National Congress , you put on a blacklist . What was the criticism ?

Simon : It's simple: South Africa was ruled by evil white rulers who oppressed blacks . Therefore, there was since 1980 an official cultural boycott of the UN against the country. And then stumbles in there the white , Western, egocentric pop star Paul Simon and want to make music without thinking about the political consequences . The political landscape in South Africa was very complex. Who wants to speak competently to really needs to be familiar . The documentary " Under African Skies ", which was released just in the U.S., deepened this story for the first time adequately .

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But the film also documents your own political naivety . Why do you have this amazing open documentary on " Graceland " approved?

Simon : Actually, this should be just a harmless movie for " Graceland " anniversary. But the history of the plate has just been still told and never really unusual - neither the artistic aspect , and certainly not the political . All the hostility , all the controversies were eventually drowned out by the huge commercial success.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Do you have your decision to work in South Africa , ever regretted ?

Simon : Never. The conflict was so inflated by the media . If I played a concert in front of 5,000 people and five excited protesters held at the input high " Simon Go Home" banners, of course, only these five critics were photographed . Although perhaps shortly thereafter weglegten the posters and went to a concert. What goes around the world , are the pictures of the demonstrators. Of course, there were a total of a vocal group of critics , but as great as it was made, it was just not. And in Europe, there were significantly more than in the U.S. .

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Here in Europe, there was supposed to even bomb threats .

Simon : Unbelievable, but true. The tension that was in this conflict that was new to me . I had no idea of the extent of the fighting and violence. It actually went to the fear we could be attacked at a concert. At that time I lived in a bubble and not notice much of the riots . Only now I understood through the film that the South African musician suspected at the time, there could be trouble, but have not told me .

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Why is the local musicians were ever one to work with you? For the money ?

Simon : I do not believe . One told me that he saw at last a chance to liberate the music of his homeland by the aura of " third world development aid music." One very good reason ! He wanted to show that in Africa and globally successful pop can occur.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In one scene you remember racist comments made by a sound engineer .

Simon : At that moment I thought so , the whole thing could backfire . It happened at the beginning of " Graceland " sessions , and I waited only times off . Later, so many great South African musicians came to the fact that I ticked off the few negative moments during the recordings .

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Would you stayed all the trouble to " Graceland " not spared if you had members of the ANC brought on board ?

Simon : Probably. My friend Harry Belafonte had warned me in advance , but in the end then it all went too fast. I then even offered to play a concert for the ANC , but refused on the grounds that I would have to get their permission first. To which I replied that they were no better than all the established politicians to whom they actually wanted to offer an alternative.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Was your trip to South Africa is also a kind of escape , because your headed album so great is running?

Simon : Maybe . " Hearts and Bones" was not necessarily a hit of the sort , as I was used to. On top of that the mood in the music world was against me , along the lines of : Paul Simon is a man of yesterday. At least that had the advantage of fools freedom. African music inspired me at that time ; travel there and try something of my own , seemed to me a dream. Whether that could be commercially successful, I did not care .

SPIEGEL ONLINE : That you were hits all the same , is hard to imagine. You probably have been very pleased about the Grammy for " Graceland " .

Simon : Every musician wants to land hits. It's true , I also wanted a . But that time I had already experienced a lot of chart success. For me it was really all about , to make something exciting .
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Would you have in New York can not find at least as great South African studio musician ?

Simon : I did exactly this musician who lived in South Africa. And who did not travel to New York, do not leave their familiar surroundings . I would anytime again engage in such an adventure. But I would probably prepare it a little better.

DannyC
May-26-2014, 02:28 GMT
USA - United Staates America

Sorry for bumping an older thread but I just saw this today. I read this interview when it came out and caught my interest right away since I am both a huge Paul Simon fan as well as a huge Steve Van Zandt fan as well. Music aside, reading this really got me thinking about the kind of person Simon really is.

I have had the wonderful privilege of working for Steve Van Zandt and thankfully during the time this surfaced I got to talk to him about it for a little bit and talking to him about it, you can clearly tell that this issue is something really close and personal to him. Asking him about it, you can clearly tell that his emotions and story was emotionally honest and sincere. I can't say for sure whether or not some facts were exaggerated, but my honest opinion was that he was being truthful about it. Paul had selfish intentions and was using a politically charged and horrific situation for personal gain.

If this was a one time story about Paul, I would have probably ignored it and thought it was exaggerated. However, stories of Paul doing the wrong thing for personal gain goes all the way back to Scarborough Fair fiasco where Martin Carthy claimed he stole the arrangement from him and gave him no credit. So I feel there is some truth to the story Steve Van Zandt is telling.

I also may be a bit biased now. I have been lucky enough to meet Paul Simon a few times and let me just say, is ego definitely shows.

Brenda
May-26-2014, 03:14 GMT
Australia

Martin Carthy's grudge against Paul Simon was based on a charge of plagiarism which, he now acknowledges, was mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4722968/Friends
-again-with-Paul-Simon.html

Martin has a very high opinion of Paul

• [2000:] Martin [Carthy] appeared onstage with Paul Simon at the Hammersmith Apollo during the last week of October. The "Scarborough Fair Saga" was finally put to bed as the two of them performed it together. Here's a word or two from Martin about the experience.
"It was a great moment and the whole thing is about as satisfying as it could be. And all because of a phone call from Paul a week or so beforehand with, among other things, an invitation to his London gig, an invitation which turned out to be an invitation to sing. So I accepted. The feeling has been growing more and more in me that, at the very very least, it was time to let go. Putting it quite bluntly: even if I had cause to be aggrieved - which I was becoming less and less sure was ever really the case - I cannot be a victim all my life. In fact, in an interview ten years ago or so, Paul thanked publicly all the musicians and others he had known in England in the sixties, and this gave a shove to that train of thought in me. In interviews more recently I have found myself, when faced with the inevitable question, less and less willing to go through this "trudge through the grudge". What I had felt was, I think, more to do with injured pride than actually being cheated by the man. It has become apparent over the years that any such cheating was done by others in the course of or in the aftermath of lawsuits.
For a fair time now the music he makes has been telling me one important thing and finally I have taken notice. That this is a good man. Gracious too. His musicians love him and feel valued. They respond by being just about the best band they could possibly be. Simply hearing them play that night was to be given a masterclass. I was quite nervy at the thought of going out there and singing but Paul himself made it very easy. What else is there to say? Except that I left the Hammersmith Apollo a very happy man, with a weight off my mind and a real feeling of release. And all it took was to sing and talk with him at the end of the London leg of his tour. This is someone who values the life he has led - all of it - and detests the idea of bad blood. I'm thankful to him for having the imagination and the grace to pick up the phone and set up what has made an end of this nonsense. It's over." (Waterson Carthy website, http://www.folkicons.co.uk/nlett.htm)

DannyC
May-26-2014, 03:39 GMT
USA - United Staates America

Let me just start off and say that despite my feelings towards Paul as a person, does not change the fact that I love the work that he has done both musically and lyrically and nothing will ever change that.

Now. The fact that it took about 40 years for this issue to be "put to bed" just shows that there is a lot more to this story that we don't know. It honestly just seems that Martin just felt like it isn't worth fighting for anymore and just gave in. Despite Martins current views, it does not disregard the fact that Paul is no stranger to these kinds of controversies where he comes off better for it, which includes the making of Graceland all the way through The Capeman (but publicity backfired).

Brenda
May-26-2014, 06:40 GMT
Australia

The fact that the issue took so long to be put to be "put to bed " does not signify that there is a lot more to this story.As Martin said he was mistaken on Paul's so called plagiarism. it was reported in the Darlington and Stockton Times on 26 May 2014 that in a further twist Mc Carthy later discovered it was his own music publisher who had quietly copyrighted the song in the 1960's rather than Paul Simon. If Martin had just felt it was not worth fighting for anymore why would he go to great lengths to tell us what a good person Paul is. N
o need for him to do that,

Bodo
May-27-2014, 22:53 GMT
USA - United Staates America

Danny: "Paul had selfish intentions and was using a politically charged and horrific situation for personal gain."

Not sure if I understand everything, but do you think that Paul thought: "Oh, there is a politically charged and horrific situation, I could use that, make some music, others can not do that, it will be a hit, I will win a grammy for that and forget about my last flops?"

At least it sounds like that.


I do not believe so. I honestly believe that Paul had not much insight on that whole situation. He simply wanted to record with those musicians. If they would have been from any other country of the world he would have traveled there.

You might blame him for not thinking about what might happen - ok, maybe someone else like Steve would have thought that he should not go to SA because it could help his career or whatever and might him set in the center of attention. But Paul simply thought about nothing. He wanted to record music. And I am sure he would have been happy if there wouldnt have been any trouble. I am even sure he would not have expected this album to become a hit. And if you think the other way around: If this album would have been a flop then no one would have ever spend thinking a minute about all that stuff.
I do not believe that Graceland became a hit because of the boykott. People just like the music. I liked that album since a kid, and hey - I never had any idea about SouthAfrica. Personally I preferred that time, when I simply could enjoy the music. I even did not know that this album was a million copies selling hit, I thought we are the only family having a copy of that strange LP, all others are listening to Michael Jackson and Prince.

Steve could make peace with Paul too, it simply needs a talk.

Bodo
May-27-2014, 23:17 GMT
USA - United Staates America

BTW.: Beside the facts.
I really do not like the style of that "interview"(? or what is it), it is very obvious that the interviewer and the interviewed person are good friends and that they already agree on their (same) opinions. Thats not an interview of course, it is taping two friends who hang out and drink 5-10 beers.


2nd BTW.: I can understand that Paul might give the impression of beeing selfish, because for sure - he is not the person to have an easy chat in a bar about chicks and pizza and beer makes. But: Come on, this guy has so many good friends, you can not count all those "important" persons and artists who admire Paul - so those few guys which do not like him just dont count. Some people just cant stand each other. Thats naturally. In Paul Simons case a few of them are famous and give bad interviews. Now come up with just ONE interview where Paul is telling bad things about another person. There is not even one statement against Garfunkel. He seems to be superfriendly. Maybe he has taken an arrangement of an tradition song when he was 21 years or so, does that put him into hell of bad people forever? (Come on, a re-arrangement of traditional song, who on earth thought that you have to pay someone royalties for that?)

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