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Ans
Apr-26-2009, 11:23 GMT
Netherlands

Hi Paul,

I removed your post where you offered an illegal download of an official DVD release. There is some grey space according to the forum rules but we should not bring this site in trouble.
I hope you understand it´s not meant personally, only to protect this site, if Bodo thinks it´s not a problem it can be posted again I guess.

Paul
Apr-26-2009, 11:54 GMT
Unknown

But why isn´t that legal?
It´s the same way as i bring you a DVD, and you watch it at home.. If you want to sell it - that would be illegal. Furthermore this DVD surely isn´t for sale - you can read the caution message (the first frame of each DVD).
Even if you want to sell it, what´s the diff? You can buy it officially and do it the same way by making as many copies as you want to sell. I don´t want you to do this! But once you do, you won´t be right, of course.
And i don´t understand why was the Pirate Bay closed.. They´re not guilty at all to my mind. The same thing is with e-mail. All the information is private there. On torrents too.

Ans
Apr-26-2009, 13:07 GMT
Netherlands

I understand your disappointment, but let´s see what Bodo has to say about this. IMO it would harm this site, The Tower Theatre is officially for sale and not very expensive, I don´t see the reason to download it illegally.

Bodo  
Apr-26-2009, 13:30 GMT
Austria

Thanks Ans - you are right to do that.


And Paul - I really can not understand any of your arguments. Fact is: Producing a DVD in high quality costs a lot of money - if no one buys it - then Paul Simon will not release anything new.

From your posting I understand that you do not know anything about copyright law. (??)

a) Offering a download on the net is not the same as bringin it to your neighbour, because you do not have 200 Million Neighbours. This kind of sharing comes from the time when people recorded their music on tapes. And with your copy you could only reach about 4-5 friends. I remember this was legal, but it was called something like ´private trade´ - if you offer a download in the internet possible 1 Billion people can download it - whatever you argue: that is not private!


b) Not selling only is illegal, also offering a download is illegal. It is also illegal to make a copy of the DVD.

c) The caution message off every DVD says it is illegal to make ANY copy of that material. Not it is illegal to sell this DVD.

I do not understand the rest of your posting. (I understand the words, but not their meaning..official buying and selling..??)


But I do not want to argue too much about laws and what is illegal and what not - because I know that everywhere in South America you will not find a legal CD or DVD anywhere in a shop. And I understand that there is a lot of material which is not available and we all want to have - and we share these things, and thats okay.


But I think that Pauls fans can spend 8-12 Dollars for such a DVD. And this DVD is available everywhere!
You destroy Pauls market doing that - and so maybe the will never ever release a Concert In The Park DVD, because it will cost a lot of money to produce this DVD, and they will not earn anything.

Scaaty
Apr-26-2009, 13:41 GMT
Ireland

In Ireland it was illegal to record onto a cassette tape - yet many did it. It also illegal (but never enforced) to buy a CD and then put it onto your iPod, iPods should only contain music bought on line!
these are stupid rules, but Bodo and Ans are right. rules against offering downloads of easily available CDs and DVDs are necessary to prevent the ruin of the music industry.

Paul
Apr-26-2009, 14:33 GMT
Unknown

Dear friends!
Wait a minute..
This DVD is NOT sold in our country, so i was offering this firstly to the Russian fans, and secondly to the people who don´t have an opportunity to buy it for the same reason.
And remember: there are different laws in each country, so it´s your choice whether to follow the rules or not. We haven´t got any restrictions of making copies. So i can share everything what i´ve bought. I simply have a right to damage the disc or give it to my neighbour as a birthday present. The only thing is that you can´t sell the stuff - only for home using.
And the internet - it´s international to my belief. Who knows which laws act on this forum..

Unofficial recordings are also restricted - and we have many threads here with such offers. The last one i remember was called a "fuc**n´ awesome upload on dime". And i don´t want to say anything more cause we used to talk about it some weeks ago.

Continuing this theme i can add that Arthur has just prohibited spreading his pictures on his forum or maybe everywhere. This is an author´s will - and i appreciate that. And why i should prove that to you - you all have countries that have the GREATEST judging institutes. Forget about Russia. They do everything what they want :) Money and power - this is what rules here.

And don´t forget - i was just for the justice. And you understand that justice and lawfulness are the different things. Laws differ from country to country and they are always right there! But everyone has a different understanding of equity. You say nah, i say yeah, he says NO! she says SURE! And they say THAT´S OK. I hope you understand me, cause really.. it´s not sold in our country :(( That´s my point.

Bodo
Apr-26-2009, 16:14 GMT
Austria

Hi Paul

As I said some weeks before - these laws might count for your country, but not in most (sorry to use this word now) ´western´ countries.
[As I told you, you can go to russia, buy a server, and do whatever you want there]

However - everyone has to follow their own country rules. Just because it is legal to have sex in Thailand with children, it is not legal in my country, and so not legal for the citizens of my country. They all got to prison. Same for illegal copies.

The internet is not a country without rules.

The law of this forum is always the law of the country, in which the server runs. It is Germany.
If the picture of yourself(your pic Paul) has been taken by a professional photographer who does not allow it to be published, I could be sued. (That example should just show what kind of laws are here, I do not believe this will happen)

But - as I said before - I do not want to sound as if I/we follow every law. The not-sharing-official-things rule is a rule of paul-simon.info to respect Paul Simon.

And: You see: Why should someone release this "Live at the Tower DVD" in Russia, if there is now law protecting this work? As I said: If all countries would have a copyright protection status like Russia, China, Peru, Bolivie, Kuba... then no one would release anything.

Bodo
Apr-26-2009, 16:22 GMT
Austria

Hi Scaaty.

I also thought that somehow this was a special rule in Austria (and maybe some other countries)
But this was not completely free here. For every blank cassette in Austria there is a special tax, the money will be given to all artists then (in that case only Austrian musicians)

Later they also changed this law, and now we pay an extra tax for blank CD´s (Künstlerabgabe - artists contribution). I did not follow this story exactly, but I know CD´s are more expensive then in Germany (and since a few years it is not allowed to order blank CD´s from Germany, because then you would not pay this tax)

Strange point now:
This tax should give you the right to make private copies again, but there are also these copy-protected CD´s. So this whole thing does not make much sense. We pay tax for something we can not use (legal) :-D

Jozsef
Apr-26-2009, 20:47 GMT
Romania

Between law and "illegal".

Freud said this and Jung said that. It is neither translated into my lang, nor have I the financial resource to buy these.
Heidegger said this and Lacan said that. I have the money but the stuffs are not marketed in my country.

Buddha said this and Mozart composed that. They do not have a copyright on their work. But I can assure you, if one of these persons would have put a copyright, we would have been at least 200 years behind.

We are talking about copyright of an artistic production. Yes, PS do HAS all the right in the world to sue anyone having an illegal copy of his albums. I can assure you PS would NOT had been known as he is in case he would have been extremely strict in terms of law.

I think written (legal) contracts do not work anymore. I think unwritten morale will have a chance in the future.

I also think this site has all the right in the world to defend its integrity.

Good luck,

Bodo
Apr-26-2009, 21:08 GMT
Austria

Behind what?

If Mozart had a copyright, we would have been 200 years behind. Behind what? And in which discipline?

Unwritten moral could have a chance Jozsef - but the problem is, that unwritten unmoral would be even stronger. And the unwritten moral can not be delivered to other people.

Maybe that was the reason that 2000 years ago the began writting books like the bible, Koran a.s.o.

Jozsef
Apr-28-2009, 11:07 GMT
Romania

Maybe I´m wrong, but I´m convinced PS would never sue a true fan for pirate downloads from a country in which you cannot buy his albums. Attention: I am not encouraging anyone to do this, I always prefer a REAL album and not a pale copy of it, but I do understand those who do not have access to a real album and use the sharing hubs. One solution could be that mentioned by you earlier: every single CD and DVD should be marketed with a copyright tax included.

Behind what? Imagine someone having copyright on the CONCEPT of wheel. It is (almost) the same with the Microsoft having monopoly (or quasi monopoly) on the OS´s which enable people to have access to divers info, to have access to the internet, etc.

Yes, a few thousand years earlier we felt the urge to write all those books you were talking about. And yes, the world is now a few thousand times more complicated than then. This - again - does not mean everything being written there has fallen in desuetude. But it does mean that one already does not have the power to enforce pure and formal legality anymore (fortunately or unfortunately).

scaaty
Apr-28-2009, 14:45 GMT
Ireland

An interesting article re copyright:-
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0
425/1224245347234.html

Nikki
Apr-28-2009, 15:56 GMT
Australia

That is an interesting article Scaaty. Well in my view Google books is already sterile and unattractive as it is (along with most forms of ebooks) so a few ads won´t make too much of a difference, though they can be distracting of course. But I Love google books for its convenience factor so I guess it´s a compromise, no such thing as an entirely free book.

With the tax on the blank CDs - do they go into some sort of fund for the arts / music in government portfolios?

Søren
Apr-29-2009, 07:17 GMT
Denmark

http://global.ebay.com/search?Query=paul+simon+phi
ladelphia

Manus
Apr-29-2009, 12:51 GMT
Netherlands

I just wonder... If the DVD of CP ´91 was made available to download, would that be illegal? It´s not for sale and I just can´t find it online. I´d Love to have that, and if I would find download links, can I post them here?

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