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| Author | Comment | simon evans
Nov-19-2004, 17:38 GMT
IP:
United Kingdom
 | I appreciate what you´re saying, but what´s 9/11 got to do with it? It´s also one thing to support the troops, but does that mean you condone what they´re doing out there, bombing hospitals, torturing innocents, murdering women and children. The only solution, and it´s by no mean ideal is for the coalition of the unwilling to leave and let the UN try and sort out the mess. And if that looks too much like surrender for America to swallow then so be it. How many more people have to die before Bush and Blair admit they were wrong? This war makes me ashamed to be British and deeply, deeply afraid for my son´s future. In such times the music of Simon and Garfunkel acts both as a balm, and as a reminder of a better, brighter, more optimistic age. I´m not sure I could have survived the past 18 months without it. | | | | Turkey
Nov-20-2004, 15:42 GMT
IP:
United Kingdom
| OK EVERYONE!!!!!!! CALM DOWN, this, as i said, is a music site about PAUL SIMON, so please, im sorry for the arguements i have unintentionally started, but can we all just stop talking about politics and talk about what were really here for, that is, PAUL SIMON | | | | Fandosh
Nov-21-2004, 02:41 GMT
IP:
Czech Republik
 | I´m concussed...............
Well this is reality of this world,people hate people.
I DON´T UNDERSTAND TO THEM...Each of us is waiting for shot of gun. Don´t you agree?- sorry, it´s truth......
That is why we have to live and celebrate all day,which we are with our relatives, friends and with our healthy body...
| | | | Fandosh
Nov-21-2004, 02:45 GMT
IP:
Czech Republik
| Bodo, please, change this pictures... We can see Paul´s lifeline ... | | | | Brian
Nov-22-2004, 09:16 GMT
IP:
USA - United Staates America
 | If I were that soldier, I would have done the EXACT same thing. What your ´article´ does not mention is that a number of US soldiers have been killed by booby-trapped bodies. Insurgants implant wounded Iraqis with explosives so that they explode when good-intending soldiers pick them up for treatment. Would you take such a chance with your own life?
Falluja is a warzone and has been for months. There are NO peaceful people in this city. Everyone who is left is a remaining insurgant, and has no legitamite business in a warzone.
I won´t be visiting the forums while these pics are up.
Bye. | | | | Beth
Nov-22-2004, 12:04 GMT
IP:
USA - United Staates America
| Ditto....
Bye..... | | | | Edge
Nov-22-2004, 13:32 GMT
IP:
USA - United Staates America
| Brian and Beth, you seriously should think a little bit more before agreeing on and writting sentences like:
"If I were that soldier, I would have done the EXACT same thing."
This doesn´t make this planet better.
And - most of the people killed in Iraq are civilians like you and me.
In Falluja there have been living 300.000 people, and only 1 or 2 percent of them are Insurgants - but when I read your posting I have the feeling you would like to kill them all. And the real sad fact is that they haven´t done anything against YOU!.
| | | | Søren
Nov-22-2004, 13:33 GMT
IP:
Denmark
 | Well, I think I too will make a contribution to this very emotional discussion:
I agree very much with all the people in this forum saying that this should not be a forum for political discussions, and I will therefore keep away from my general opinions on the whole "war on terror/war in Iraq" subject.
However, when Bodo puts up pictures like these on a Paul Simon fan page I think it´s quite OK that we all discuss why he has done so, and what we think about it in general.
I must say I don´t understand why Bodo refuses to participate in this discussion. We all Love Bodo for the excellent work he does on this site, and I know he can do whatever he wants, but is it really too much to ask for a reason, why he suddenly chooses to make this beautiful site a site for political statements?
Again: I´m not saying I disagree with Bodo´s statement - and I don´t wanna have that discussion in here at all. The dicussion I think I´m looking for is the one disussing what we think of Bodo bringing politics into this page in the first place?
Now, I don´t see anything wrong with a thread in this forum once in a while being about something else than Paul Simon (politics or whatever), but having these very strong pictures on the very front page of this site seems to me to be too much. It surely seems to make a lot of people forget about what this site (IMO) should primarily be about: celebrating Paul Simon and his great music! Bodo, any opinion from you on these subjects would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, if anybody made it this far, there is one more thing I have to get off my chest:
Brian, I do not understand your point in your last message:
Standing one yard from a wounded iraqi and shooting at him, certainly can not be explained with a fear that he is wired with explosives, agree? | | | | Nathgertsch
Nov-22-2004, 14:26 GMT
IP:
France
 | Right and I think that when you are a soldier, you imagine you will have to face hard situations like these ones and if you start to shoot anybody (even a man half dead on the floor !!!) just because of the *risk* to be killed too, sorry but you should immediately change your job as you then become very dangerous ! | | | | Bodo
Nov-22-2004, 17:00 GMT
IP:
Austria
 | Hello Soren
I´ll answer some of your questions.
First, I don´t really want to participate on this dicussion because it always get´s ugly and bad words are written fast. Often it ends when people start to repeat their same agruments again and again and so it doesn´t make sence.
Why did I put up these pictures on this site.
I´m against this war. This war is based on lies. No one who can think clearly can support this war, because there are no reasons for, and there´s nothing to win. (except money for some companies)
I put the pictures on the main site of exactly this website because here everyone is _forced_ to see them.
They are useless on a anti-war site, because only people who are against the war are visiting this site.
They are also useless on a news-site because people can decide where they want to read their news and what they want to read there. If you are pro-war you will read a pro-war newssite.
You see this also happens here, people who are pro-war will leave the forum, they don´t want to see the truth. They even try to start a campaign against this truth . (however, with low support)
These pictures show that this war doesn´t bring peace.
They told you on TV that they have weapons with such an high precission that they can hit a target 1000 miles away and wont kill any civilian people.
The truth is, they don´t even know who is civilian.
They kill everything making a move.
I put this pictures onto this page because I don´t want to have a oasis here, a oasis of "still acceptance" People who think this war is good will search for another oasis. I hope the desert grows.
Why did I do that
There is always one argument which really makes me angry. This argument comes from US or UK people who are _against_ this war.
A lot of them say a sentence like this one:
"I am against this war, I always was against it because the reasons for the war are wrong and I hope it will end soon. But now we are in this war and I support my troops because these are our people"
This argument makes me so angry. If you are against this war, then say "STOP IT"
"COME HOME"
and don´t give them (the goverment, the troops) the feeling as if they are doing something good.
Don´t say:
"These are the circumstances of war"
"This happens because it is a warzone"
There don´t has to be a war or a warzone.
I want to hear from anti-war people that they don´t support it, and that they don´t support these troops.
Don´t be a flip/flop (if you like these kind of sentences more)
About people who are trying to relativate this crime shown on the pictures
Believe it or not, it is illegal.
Killing a wounded prisoner is against the Geneva-convention.
Killing everyone around you in a dangerous situation is really not the best solution, you will kill 99% of innocent people.
I will bring up another solution.
An easy solution would be to stand 10 meters away and tell the person to take off als his clothes, raise his arms, and then lie down on the ground and capture him. You don´t have to kill him.
If he is wounded, then tell one of the other prisoners(maybe a friend of the wounded person) to check him.
Maybe it is also against the Geneva-convetion to ask a prisoner to take off his clothes - but it will not kill people randomly.
And the connection to Paul Simon
There is no connection. I think Paul Simon is yellow, if not he should have released his song "Wartime prayers".
And also he should have had gone on tour with Bruce Springsteen and REM´s "vote for a change tour".
But he is yellow to loose some fan´s, or friends, or to get asked stupid questions from journalists.
Will I take these pictures away?
Not now.
If these pictures wouldn´t be there then we forget about these things after 2 day´s.
These pictures bring up the real emotions.
A statement like "Give peace a chance" would only make everything laughable.
| | | | Søren
Nov-22-2004, 18:15 GMT
IP:
Denmark
| Thanks Bodo.
I appreciate very much that you finally decided to give us your arguments for doing as you did.
As I said before I will not go into the discussion of this war being right or wrong or anything like that. Like you say yourself an internet forum is not a great place to do that. Too many will too soon begin with the dirty mouth arguments, and nothing good comes from that.
What I was missing was your reason for expressing your feelings about this war so strongly on this site (I guess we all already had your opinion on the war figured out :)), and now you have given it. Thanks.
You do make some good points, but I´m not sure I would have done the same (given it was my site and I was as anti-war as you are (and again: I´m not saying I´m not)). I´m not saying that music and politics should be kept apart or anything like that. It never has been and never will be, and political opninions is a great part of many great songs.
However, I do understand the people saying that music is also a way of getting away from all the world´s cruelties, and therefore don´t wanna face these horrible pictures everytime they log on to their favourite fan page.
Anyway, it´s your site, and I respect your opinions on these matters and your right to express them as you like. | | | | marmotte
Nov-22-2004, 18:18 GMT
IP:
France
| Ok Bodo, thanks for your explainations. I share your angryness, I don´t think I am the only one. What I know, it is that one day, american people who support this war will ´wake up´and judge very hardly the action of the actual government in Irak. they have this fantastic capacity of returning on their contemporarian history and recognize their errors. Waiting for that hopefull time, I just feel sorry watching this feary theater, and hope the rest of the world will be able to stay peaceful... | | | | nick
Nov-22-2004, 18:20 GMT
IP:
France
| for the fist time a fan page is something more ! and I think its great thank for those pictures (sorry for my english) you´re doing a great job on it and they help us to know you more. As iI agree whith your point of view it´s easy to me to say that but it ´s rare for an fan site to be more than a world appart and I think it´s a good thing. We like paul´s music but we also live in the real world. Your pictures just shows us on withch side you are that´s all?
It´s on our duty not to stay blind or mute as far as we undertsand each point of wiew (and stay polite :-) ). Its the essence of a forum, no ? | | | | Kuno
Nov-22-2004, 19:30 GMT
IP:
Switzerland
 | I myself am too totally against this war. My opinion is quite the same as Bodo wrote in his posting. (I guess most of the European people feel like we do).
But to be honest, I don´t want to have discussions HERE about the war and politics in general. This would be an endless discussion, and it´s impossible to change the opinion of someone in this topic anyway.
So please, let´s talk about something more PS related stuff....hey, there´s only one week until the release of the dvd ! | | | | Isa
Nov-22-2004, 21:28 GMT
IP:
USA - United Staates America
| I totally agree with Kuno. I live in the United States so I was just part of all the election and war stuff going on here.
Though I agree with Bodod about this, which is why I voted for Kerry, I come here to get away from all that. I know of MANY anti-war sites you and I can go to. I come here to revel in a place that is dedicated solely to Paul Simon and his music and life.
It wasn´t too long ago that another memeber wrote in here that he wanted to say something about a subject other than Paul Simon, but he knew Bodo would delete it because it is strictly a Paul Simon site, so he incorprated it into it. Well I think that is waht it should be. A PAUL SIMON SITE. Not a political site. If I wanted that, I can go to hundreds of other places.
I originally came to this site because I thought it was the best and most comprehensive fan site I had ever seen for Paul. I was proud to be a member of it. I still am, believe me, but I will definately withdraw my membership if this becomes a politiacl site about this stupid war. I am sick of seeing it everywhere. I deal with it everyday as it is. I find the photos offensive. If you want to see photos, watch the beheadings online. I have seen them. I know how cruel and sick this war is. But this is not the place for it.
If this is what you want Bodo, start another site for it, don´t bring it here. I hope other people who feel the same way will speak out and tell him how you feel about it.
If you don´t agree with me...then throw me out as a member.
Paul Simon Forever!!!! | | | | |
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